Ep. 142 | The Therapy Room Full of Strangers That Changed Everything

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Welcome to Everyday Therapy, where simple and practical concepts of therapy meet your everyday life. Hosted by a licensed marriage and family therapist Brett Cushing and Krista Overton, we're here to help you unlock tools and strategies you need to become the best version of yourself. Whether you're looking for guidance, inspiration, anecdotes, or actionable advice, you're in the right place.

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Let's dive into everyday therapy. Hello and welcome back to another episode of Everyday Therapy. Today we're talking about group therapy. Woo! Yeah, this is exciting. Oh boy. Group therapy. We don't like this a lot. You know, when you think about it, people don't like group therapy. Why? Krista, I think that is a great question. Just off the top, I think people in general, it takes an act of courage to go to therapy in the first place and individual therapy, right, with just you and one other person.

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I think group therapy now, it's this feeling of, okay, now I'm supposed to tell all my problems to all this, this roomful of strangers. And you know what? If I see someone I know? Or what if I hate it? Yes. Right. What if no one I can't relate to anyone. And I think, you know, we also have something innate within us.

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We have a desire to be seen. We have a desire to be known. We have a desire to belong. I mean, and and that's really what group and provide. So the very thing we long for in like a group that it can provide is the thing we're terrified of at the same time. That is such a good point, actually.

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We're kind of doing the undersell about group therapy start, because we want to acknowledge that there's a lot of resistance, a lot of reasons why that I think make perfect sense. Right. But to your point, sometimes the very thing you're most afraid of is the exact thing that you need to do. And because that's what's going to break you through to the next level, right?

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For example, let's say you're someone with social anxiety. You're like, wow, I'd rather you know, I'd rather do a lot of other things, maybe go to the dentist, get my teeth cleaned, all these other things than go and sit and talk to a bunch of people if you have social anxiety. Right. But what if you're in a space where there's rules, where there's guidelines, there's boundaries as a trained professional facilitating the whole thing, that could be something that you're not going to get an individual therapy.

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Well, now I'm going to play devil's advocate. Sure. I love to say who are my group therapy facilitator. Yes. And I'm going to come there and I want to rely on you to sort of govern the group, okay. So that I don't have anybody shaming me. I don't have anybody, you know, reacting to me or shooting on me.

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Yeah. So you can manage that. But I still can't control what people are thinking inside, you know what? What are they really thinking about? Me? Yeah, they really know what I'm struggling with. What? What they think if they knew. And so there is kind of this external control mechanism, but we still can't control what we are thinking that other people are thinking about us.

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Right? Actually, that's a really good point about I think one of the things that inherently creates anxiety for us is the unknown and the lack of control, right? Not only do we not know what the others in the room are thinking, but we have no way of controlling them to change it if we want them to be thinking something else about us.

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And so here's an important point I think with group therapy is we we don't go because we think the problem is external. What are people going to say? What are people going to think? And that actually is what produces anxiety is that I'm trying to be or at least I'm caught up and concerned about what people are thinking, and I have no control over that.

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And the more I try to control something that's out of my control or it controls me. You know, while the real issue is not external, the real issue is internal that I still have some control over. And that is how am I going to deal with this? What am I going to do about my insecurities about myself? Exactly.

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But if I make that out to be an external issue, and that's why I'm not going to go to group because of other people, right? I'm missing the real point. I really am struggling. I am not only struggling, I actually have control over how I'm going to respond to that struggle. And so it's very easy to deceive ourselves.

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I do it to myself all the time that the thing I want to avoid, I'm justified in doing it rather than looking at myself and saying, you know, what am I going to do about my insecurity, my fear, my shame? Yes. And in a very general sense, we want to, for mental health, try to move towards that. Yeah, and not away from it group as much as it brings out the insecurities and all those hesitations, it provides a great opportunity for us to lean into that which we're avoiding and which we do have some control over.

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Absolutely. Talk about bringing the external locus of control to an internal locus of control. Right. And I think there's a lot of things about group therapy. They're pretty ingenious, actually. Who's the person that wrote The Gift of Therapy? I'm totally blanking on the name, y'all. I was just going to say, yeah, y'all. So, y'all, Irving Elam is kind of a big name in the psychotherapy world.

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He wrote also. So he wrote The Gift of Therapy. Recommend. Highly recommend. But he also wrote a book about a textbook about group therapy and the point of group therapy. I'll just throw this out there and we'll get back to that, to some more facts and figures here. But the whole point of group therapy, if it's like psychotherapy, not just like a skills group or something like that, is it's supposed to trigger us.

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Yay. And in so doing, we're forced to work through our relationship issues. So I'll give you an example. So let's say I'm a group therapy participant. I get up the nerve, I go through all the things and get the intake and all the things. Then I'm sitting there and I notice the first few group sessions. There's there's this one member of the group that's just driving me absolutely nuts.

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It just gives you that look. Yeah, yeah. Or maybe it's the way that this person is talking, or maybe it's the way that this person is, you know, treating other people or whatever it is. So a good group therapy facilitator. So the the, you know, trained professional in the room will be able to notice that and help to bring about a way to some somehow look at that.

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And it's not like we're confronting the person, but it's more like why is this bothering me? It's like looking into, you know, a mirror sometimes. Right? And so then let's say in working that through a little more, I realize, oh, well, there's someone from my past who did all these same behaviors, and it's just mimicking that exact dynamic.

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Right? And it's like, well, how else would I have worked through that? Right. And so from there, there's different ways that you can actually work through it. But I just that's kind of a an example of like, why group therapy versus individual? Because a therapist may not trigger you like another group participants. Yeah. And when I say trigger I mean frustrate you.

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Irritate you. Yeah. So bother you so you can get frustrated. Yeah. Bothered. Right. Exactly. So we're making. Yeah. Totally. Totally. But I think it really validates why we don't like to do group. Yeah. And I would also interject that possibly group therapy is more needed now than it has been in many years prior, because we are so isolated from one another.

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Yep. We are on screens. We are. Everything is so digital and yes. Oh, and we just talked about on telehealth last month and yeah, there's there's benefits to that. But we are increasingly isolated. And so there's a book called The Anxious Generation. I don't know if you heard about that, but yes, I just heard of it this week.

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Yeah. That's terrific. Okay. Really I like the downside of social media. Yeah, yeah. Why so many younger people are incredibly anxious today. And it has a lot to do with this isolation that is occurring. And so as we become increasingly isolated from one another, our anxiety goes up. And that's why I'm saying group therapy, yes, is possibly arguably more necessary and beneficial.

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Yes, today than ever. I thought of another example that might be a better, better selling point than my last one, which was come to group therapy to get triggered. And by the way, The Anxious Generation is by Jonathan Haidt. Did someone just mention it to me this week? So thank you for mentioning that again. So another example of how group therapy can serve you is let's say that you are someone who has a pattern of you butt heads with authority figures, or there's some sort of interpersonal challenge that you just haven't been able to overcome.

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Again, in a group, you're going to be able to work that through. And maybe it's like I have, you know, I've worked with clients who have a hard time articulating when they disagree with something or, and or debating in a healthy and respectful way. Right. And never have we been more divided right than at this time in society.

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Right. And so let's say I don't know how to talk to people who have different views than I do. So a group therapy is the perfect way to practice that. And to really, again, listening, validating, respectful dialog, noticing if you're getting activated or if you're getting worked up right and you might not do it perfectly the first time, but the idea is it's a it's like a practice playground.

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I know it really is. Yeah, I know, I know what you're trying to say. You can think of it either, but yeah, yeah, it is sort of a practicum in practice where we are really leaning into the things that are, and so that the things that are hard actually become things that where we find healing, we experience in group, we're not going to experience other places.

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So I think that leads us more into the the potential benefits that absolutely yes, yes. One of them that comes to mind for me, and this might seem weird trying to say, yeah, I'm going to say intimacy, okay. Because we are sharing things about ourselves over time, not like the first session, but over time we are sharing things about ourselves that we maybe never shared with other people.

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Wow. Yeah, we're hearing other people share things about themselves that they haven't. And yes, I'm not saying it's a big hug to first, but it is intimacy and that can freak people out. Oh, I don't want intimacy. And yet that is what I was saying. We want do we want belonging and we want to be seen and we want to be known.

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That's intimacy. Yes. And we can only do that with a select group of people in life. And so groups can be an opportunity for tremendous intimacy and feels really, really good to people. I think that's a fantastic point. And I'll add to that. When you were talking about intimacy, I was thinking like allowing yourself to be seen again over time.

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It's a process allowing yourself to be seen and allowing others to care about you. Because I think there's a lot of people that operate under, you know, I'm going to be helpful and loving and everything towards everyone else. But when it's my turn and I need help and I need nurturing, then I'm, you know, I'm like, I don't know, I'm good.

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Right? Right. Again, what you were saying about intimacy is like, I it's it's hard to let it in sometimes. Yes. Right. You offered to buy me a coffee today and my initial urge was just that. No, no, no. I'm okay. Yeah, yeah. And not allow people to do things. Yes. Exactly. Like how to work workout. Yes. Me too.

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I'm. I'm exactly that way as well. So I think of intimacy. I also think of community closely related to that. And there have been some studies done in Canada and in Spain about the role of community in terms of overcoming addiction. And they have found that, you know, for instance, people go to a hospital, they're put on all sorts of drugs, maybe opioids, then they don't get addicted.

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Because they leave the hospital and they and other sets of community around them. Yeah. And so they did all sorts of experiments with rats and such. And, and they found, oh, I'm can't get into all of it right now. But they essentially they found that community is an essential element of overcoming an addiction. And anybody that is done like substance use disorder group.

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Yeah, like a 12 step group could really attest to that sense of community. Yes. That's a fantastic point. I think another piece would be accountability. That groups that provide accountability and motivation. So the group is listening to, you know, the things that you're going through. And I think that once you say it out loud and say, you know I would like to do this, that or the other thing, I would like to talk to my boss about, you know, getting a raise or I would like to, you know, talk to my parents about that.

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I'm not comfortable with this type of conversation or whatever it might be. So then the group can say next, the next week or the next time the group meets, they can say, how did it go? And exactly. And, and if you haven't done it again, it's like, it's not it's just other people knowing what's going on with you and then you're kind of accountable to them.

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I mean, even showing up. Right? Even showing up to something. Yeah. And it takes accountability. There is accountability. And some people might shrink back even at the hearing. The word accountability because they closely associated with judgment and criticism. Oh, that's great point. That's the really other fantastic thing about groups is that if they run well, which many of them are, it's free of judgments, you know, and I like to go to Planet Fitness workout and have it like all over the walls, you know, judgment free zone.

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And I you can't write that on a wall and just say, okay, judgments are going. If only you were that what I thought them and it was gone. Right. So yeah. Sorry you're still on your planet. Fitness to like I love the sentiment and yet groups can be a place where you do have that accountability that's free from shame, that causes us to relapse again and again and again into some of those behaviors.

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So, right, really important thing to stress that these are sometimes the safest places people have experienced a sense of belonging and community because it is free of judgment. Right. Exactly, exactly. Did you have another one. Yeah, yeah. One I think closely related is validation. I run a DBT group. And so the way we do our group is, is very much aligned with how adherent groups are supposed to be run for DBT in that first hour is focused primarily on validation.

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And so people go around the neighborhood say, hey, I'm Brett. This is what I'm grateful for today. I this is how I did recording things. I've kind of and how I did with my homework over the past week. And you don't say anything. So, and then the group leader would say, okay, let's give feedback validation for Brett.

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Oh my goodness, that's hard. Wow. People just go around and they share genuinely some feedback and some validation. Hey, that's great. You really worked hard on that last like or I know that was hard for you to confront that person. And then the person who says this has to just sit and receive that. Wow. And I often I love that first hour.

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And I ask people in that group where, when in your life have you taken an hour of your week just to focus on giving and receiving validation? Oh my gosh, it's like never right. Where else would they get that? Seriously? And they people really get attached to one another. And yes, I'd say it's a beautiful thing. The right.

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Yes, I think so too, I think. And just to kind of give a give, I don't know if it's a plug because I mean, with the 12 step groups, you know, attraction, not promotion, right? Yeah. But I've heard so many, so many stories from people in 12 step communities, whether it be Alcoholics Anonymous, Narcotics Anonymous, there's all the anonymous and that just just going and being with people, even if it's not a therapy group.

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Right. Because AA isn't you know, the A's aren't therapy, right? It's a support group. But even just going and getting getting around other people takes you out of yourself. Right. And then the other piece is, I think there's a slogan or saying that's like, my mind is a dangerous place. Best not to go there alone. Something like that.

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Yeah, yeah. And so because other people, when you're in a community of like minded people who are trying to get better, trying to recover, yeah, it's like, well, let's just bounce ideas off each other is brainstorm even just talking about it. Right. Even though you don't even know, you're not even looking for feedback. So like what you said group, it allows us to to get beyond ourselves or it takes us out of ourselves.

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Yes. And I think part of the hesitation people have with group is very much similar to the fear we have with public speaking, like the number one fear people have. And I think the reason we have fears with public speaking and fears, this group are very similar and I've done a lot. When I was a pastor, I would always remember some doctoral course that my profs said, don't even bother preaching or teaching if you don't feel the burden.

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And the burden was the burden that everybody you're speaking to is what they're carrying, the burdens that they have. And I found when I have the burden, I do well, you know, when I'm really connecting with the people around me, I have no fear, no anxiety. Wow. And as much as I've spoken publicly for decades, I still have anxiety when I start focusing on what people think of me.

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How am I doing? Am I saying this right? Right? And so I'm back in my self. So group does give us the opportunity, like you said, to get beyond ourselves. And that in itself can be profoundly helpful for our mental health. And we have a solidarity with and intimacy. We have a care with all these other people that we're meeting with now.

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Yes. And it's not all about me. Exactly, exactly. I think that the other piece to highlight here is that there are a lot of different types of groups. So we're kind of speaking about group therapy generally, but you could be dealing with chronic pain. You could be dealing with a specific diagnosis. You could be dealing with substance abuse.

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We have a group here at Bloomington at least that is a substance of mental health and substance use group. And so people who have both we have dual yeah. Yeah. Dual diagnosis. Yep. And there's also interpersonal communication group stress management. Like there's Nystrom alone has a ton I just went to our group therapy registration page. And just taking a glance here I'm going to read some of the some of the themes.

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There's grief and loss transitions group. There's insomnia group. There is a coping skills group. There is a fertility challenges group authenticity and interpersonal relationships group anger management. So again, and that's literally just a fraction of the the ones that the the list goes on and on. So that's the other thing is if you could find a group that's tailored to what you're dealing with, all the better, right?

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Because you're going to be able to get around other people who can relate to maybe something that others in your life are just like, I don't know how. I can't imagine what you're going through. Right? Yeah. And I think the the large number of groups that are represented really can be validating because it indicates how much we are all really struggling with something.

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Everybody is everybody wants something. And so you can find a group that maybe not a perfect match, but at least in a general sense, yes, you can go to, I think, a grief groups to. Yeah, exactly. Important ones. Yep, yep. Lastly, I think it's also important to highlight the structured Greek. So when we go into groups there there's different types.

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There's open groups and there's closed groups. Closed is sort of closed to new people coming in for certain periods of time. You have to because you're dealing with sort of topic and open is sort of you can come in any time and then there's process groups where people are trying to process out loud and with others in the group, and maybe giving some feedback to one another.

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What is going on? How am I feeling? And that's where that connection comes in, where you can't sort of say it, you can't even figure it out. But then somebody across the room articulates what's going on in their life and you say, oh, that's, that's exactly how I feel. Yes. And that begins the process of change. So this process groups are really terrific.

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That's great. And then there's there's more kind of like didactic teaching groups and skill building groups where you can learn like social skills. You should learn skills to regulate emotions, all sorts of different kinds of abilities and skills you can work on in practice. But yeah, those are some of the examples of the different types of groups. And it's important to know what every group you go to is that what kind of group is it.

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So that totally, you know, your expectations are going to be met. Exactly. Because some groups, even the format of, you know, it might be an hour or two hours, it could be very structured. Like you said, it could be exercises designed for specific skills, communication, etc. others might be more open ended where it's just we're kind of talking about, you know, each person is talking about what what they're dealing with.

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Right? So yeah, I think, like you said, finding the group that fits what you're looking for, any do you have any other thoughts on kind of that topic otherwise I had yeah. No. Go ahead. I wanted to just kind of summarize, you know, skills that you can gain from group therapy. I know we've touched on a lot of these, but again, I think there's a bunch we can highlight, at least a handful we can highlight.

00;22;58;07 - 00;23;22;02
So communication skills practicing you know expressing your thoughts and feelings just that just that alone doesn't even have to be on a tough topic right? So many of us haven't had the opportunity to practice that social skills in relationship building. Of course, I love this one. Emotional intelligence. Develop greater self-awareness and understanding of your own emotions. I mean, how huge is that, right?

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I mean, even just being able to put yourself in someone else's shoes. Yeah, it builds empathy, right? Yeah. Taking another's perspective. I mean, again, I think we're at a time in our world where in our, at least in our society where it's like, no, I'm set on what I think. And if you don't agree with me, I don't like you.

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Right? Yeah. I mean, like, wow, we could use a lot more of these more these opportunities. So yeah. Did you have any other kind of thoughts on this topic? No, I just I find that for myself. Heard I do a group thing with bunch of other men and good. I look forward to it. These men inspire me. Their humility challenges me.

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Their input helps me. And there's a there's a real list there. Yeah, I need in my life. And I'm going to go on linear that I think many men are especially isolated. You know, it's that rugged individualism and we're kind of conditioned not to share. And I'm like, I'm fine or I'm over it. And totally I think when we have that connection and group, that's a form of validation.

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That's where change in our lives. But it's it's the thing we're so terrified of is to be seen and be known. But then when it happens, that's where change really begins and people start to absolute yes, I'm not alone. I'm so glad you said that. I don't think that word has come into this podcast, but that is absolutely huge and such a good note to end on.

00;24;54;03 - 00;25;23;03
Yeah, because yeah, there's no shit real quick there. Yes. Yeah. It's in a church setting and I love this story. So this guy is leading a group and a bunch of men and you know, they try to pray at the end. And so the leader said, yeah, they nobody really shares anything like what their struggles are, you know, like, pray my shirts got a stain in it, you know, and pray stain comes out and I get to pop popcorn at the game on Friday and all these really deep things.

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And so the leader yeah, was really frustrated, okay. Because people weren't going deep. Right. Okay. Yeah. So he goes to his pastor and he says, hey, nobody's sharing anything really deep like what their struggles are. And so the pastor said, all right, well, let's pretend I'm your leader. What do you struggle with? Okay. And the leader said, what do you mean, what do I struggle?

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What do you said, yeah, what do you struggle with? And he said, oh, I've never told anybody this, but I struggle with lust. And that's just said, oh cool. Well next week go tell everybody that's what you struggle with. Yeah. So I was like, I can't do that. I'm the leader in the pastors. Oh, I get it. You want them to share their guts, but you know not you.

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Yeah. Well it goes back and they come around and he says, hey, guys, I need you to pray for me because I. I struggle with lust. And there's this long sign that all the guys in the group are less. Yeah. Oh, yeah, sure we can. We'll pray for them and, you know, and everyone's dodging it. But then after a little while, another guy says, you know, I struggle with that, too, and I've never told anybody.

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And then another guy said, you know, I, I used to struggle with that. I have real anger problems, and I just explode. And they went around for another hour and a half and everybody shared what they struggled with. And the leader called the pastor and said, I shared. Another guy shared, we all shared and we feel like we're f over our problems because we all finally shared with one another.

00;26;53;03 - 00;27;12;19
So I think it's a good story that highlights that it's the power of group, how it brings about hope and how it's the beginning of real change. Thank you for sharing that. That's very powerful. All right everybody, thanks for joining us this week. Be sure to subscribe to our podcast. And we can't wait to talk with you next time.

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Thank you for listening to this episode of Everyday Therapy. We hope you're inspired to apply today's insights to your own life. Don't forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode! If you found this podcast helpful, please leave us a review. It helps others discover the show and join our community. See you next session! Everyday therapy is a production of Nystrom and Associates, one of the largest behavioral health organizations in the country.

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